Questions asked by citizens to the Department of Environmental Quality at RCHS October 1, 2008, part 1

by Richard Lamb, Advance Editor

Some came to ask questions and some came to give answers. Both the questioners and the questioned had time to hear each other out as the Wolverine Power plant project progresses to the next stage?the public comment period.

The Department of Environmental Quality?s (DEQ) Air Quality Division (AQD) hosted a four-hour informational session at Rogers City High School (RCHS) last Wednesday. After a 20-minute presentation by some of the 18 DEQ staffers present (see separate story), the floor was opened up for questions.

Question?Is it the responsibility of Michigan Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) to protect the health, safety and welfare of this region and the entire state?

(Robert Sills, toxicology specialist)??We have a state health department and they oversee a lot of health issues in the state and a lot of the time they include a lot of environmental health issues in the state, but they do not play a role in a permitting project like this one. The Presque Isle County Planning Commission plays a role here in determining what kind of projects might be allowed to come here. I think that primarily, with regards to this kind of permitting project, that it is the primary responsibility of Air Quality Division (AQD) and DEQ to insure that the emissions from the facility would be protective of health, welfare and safety of the area all around that source. We do that through our permit review process and evaluating the impacts and doing health and environmental risk assessment work, and developing proper permit limits and then having people like Bill Rogers (environmental quality analyst based in Gaylord) out in the field overseeing the project once it is up and operating to make sure they comply with their limits.?

Question?What limits has the DEQ used for limiting carbon dioxide (CO2) in a facility like this?

(Mary Ann Dolhanty, acting supervisor permit section, AQD) ? ?At this time this is an evolving issue that is not easy to answer. The easy answer is that at this time we did not try to quantify CO2 as part of this permit review. The position that the state has taken at this time is that the governor established, by executive order, this issue from a broad-based perspective for what would be in the best interest of Michigan in light of some of the federal issues that are ongoing. That group has been working all year and their recommendations are due at the end of the year or maybe early spring. What may come out of that is maybe legislation or administrative rules that would set standards for us to look at CO2 and establish limits and regulate CO2. The department has taken the position that we are going to wait for that process to see its way through and come up with recommendations. Any recommendations which come from that Wolverine would be subject to.?

Question?Why was Wolverine the first to be issued a draft permit of the others, which applied?

(Melissa Byrnes, DEQ environmental engineer)??Because they supplied all the information that we asked for in a timely manner. They gave us the information we needed right away. That had a lot to do with it.?

Question?Is it true Michigan has the most stringent air regulations in the country? (Sills) ? ?I think that if Michigan is not the leader, then we are right in the pack along with a few other states like Minnesota and California. We have a very, very broad air toxics program that goes further that the federal program. We look at the full gamut of potential health risks. I don?t think we are second to anyone.?

Question?Is it true the air pollution equipment will not be operating until the ?worst case? scenario and will actually be turned off most of the time?

(Byrnes)??There is an actual condition in the permit that states that (Wolverine) cannot even operate the circulating fluidized bed (CFB) boiler unless the (emission) control equipment is operating. It has to be turned on all the time or they cannot operate the boiler.?

Question?Are there any other air quality issues, such as spills of fuel, addressed by the DEQ or the Michigan Department of Transportation?

(Byrnes)??These things that have to do with pollutants have to do with the DEQ.?

Question?The mercury that goes out the stacks is one thing, and that will be greatly reduced, but I?m concerned about the byproduct that will probably be in our landscape. Is there any baseline of mercury levels in Michigan that compares to the rest of the state?

(Sills)??There has been a lot of studies done about mercury in Michigan and several other states. There is a lot of variability in the data, but the most important data has to do with (levels of) mercury in fish. We have benchmarks, which could trigger an advisory to people to restrict their consumption of fish from that water body.?

Question?Will the AQD require onsite and off site monitoring of the plant?

(James Haywood, senior meteorologist, modeling and meteorology unit)??There are two types of monitoring. The applicant must limit their emissions to a certain amount. It cannot exceed that by law. We require them to demonstrate that. They have to be able to monitor the emissions that come out of the stack with continuous emissions monitors. They are running all the time. They have to submit that data to our district offices for validation to make sure that they are living up to the requirements in their permit. We take that a step further within the DEQ. We have some of our staff go out and physically test those stacks to be sure that what they are telling us is accurate. (As for the outside monitors) The DEQ has a series of outside monitors.? He said the DEQ does not have the ?regulatory hammer? to require Wolverine to construct outside monitors outside their own location and it is not a part of this draft permit.

Question?Would the DEQ ever consider issuing a permit where the public health is not put at the top of the list?

(Sills)??I can?t imagine it, no.? Question?How soon after AQD issues a permit could Wolverine commence construction?

(Byrnes)??They could commence construction right away after issuance.?

Question?Will the fuel mixture be a permitted condition?

(Byrnes)??Yes, they will be limited in percentages of what fuels they can use. For example, they are limited in their permit to use up to 70 percent petroleum coke.?

Question?They stated in their permit application that the largest fuel pile would have no dust suppression. Is that true?

(Byrnes)??No. I don?t believe that is true. They are going to have a fugitive dust program and they have to use fugitive dust suppression in all of their piles and roadways and anywhere where there is fugitive dust.?

Question?What are the education qualifications for this panel and do you, based on your education, stand behind your data and view this project to be safe?

(Byrnes)??I have a Bachelor of Science in engineering. I am an environmental engineer and I have worked for the State of Michigan in the air quality division for 10 years. This is one of the biggest projects I have worked on. We evaluated it on the worse case emissions and I believe that, from what I evaluated, that with all the controls that they are going to use on these boilers, that these boilers will meet all the regulations for human health and the environment.?

(Julie Brunner, P.E., senior environmental engineer, permit section)??I have a Bachelor of Science in ceramic engineering and a Master of Science in environmental engineering. I am a licensed professional engineer in the state of Michigan. My job was to evaluate the control technology and the controls that Wolverine has proposed and (assure) they meet the requirements. They are pretty much the best that can be had for the type of pollutants they will be dealing with at their power plant under both federal and state regulations.?

(Sills)??I have a Bachelor of Science degree in aquatic biology, a Master of Science degree in toxicology and I am also a registered respiratory therapist. I have worked with the DEQ for 22 years on a wide variety of projects in both the water and the air programs. As I said earlier, I consider the project?s emissions to be safe to the public?s health. They do not pose an unacceptable risk under the state?s laws, rules or regulations. Personally, I have very few things in life that I will give 100 percent guarantees on. So I?m not going to say that something is impossible. Things can happen that we absolutely do not expect, but I can?t find anything in my review that triggers any concern for me regarding emissions from this facility. I would not have any reservations about living in this community with me and my family and living in an area that could be impacted by emissions from this facility. That is kind of the bottom line for me.?

(Haywood)??I have a bachelors of science degree in meteorology from Penn State. I have been running these models for over 20 years. Not only do I run them, but also I am involved with several of the implementation work groups (from the EPA) that write these models, tests them and validates them. Like Bob (Sills), I agree that there are no 100 percent guarantees in life, or very few anyway, which is why we are very redundant in looking at the worse case situations. It is a model and it is just a tool. Can I guarantee that it is going to predict 100 percent what the number is going to be in actuality? Not exactly, but I believe very much that it is going to be very close. I agree with Bob, I?m confident we would have no problem living up here with that plant.?

(Bill Rogers, environmental quality analyst)??I have a bachelor?s in geology from the University of Michigan, a masters in geophysics and I have put in three years into a doctorate program. As for the data, it is not my job to say I have confidence in it. It is my job to be skeptical about it. I am the field guy. I go out, I inspect, I check and I try to make sure. I haven?t come across anything that raises my hackles yet, but my hackles are ready to be raised if the occasion warrants.?

Question?What is the future of the DNR fish planting facility on the Swan River? (Sills)??I believe that the DNR operates a fish weir for collecting salmon on Swan River. I don?t know what the future plans are for that but I don?t see how this project could be conceived to have any impact on that.?

Question?Is it within the authority of the

DEQ to direct Wolverine to use a certain type of fuel?

(Byrnes)??No, it is not within our authority to determine what type of fuel (they will use). Whatever type of fuel they propose to use, it is our responsibility to evaluate the emissions from that type of fuel and make sure they meet all state and federal regulations.?

Question? I would like assurances from you that this entire process is going to be transparent and nothing is going to be constructed until all the T?s have been crossed and the I?s dotted. Isn?t it true Wolverine can change pollution controls after they are issued a permit?

(Byrnes)??I don?t believe that is true. What they have submitted we have reviewed. Controls that they said they are going to use are part of the permit conditions and they will have to have those controls. It is not a matter of they can say later ?we will not use that, we will use something else.? They would have to come in and get their permit modified and go through this whole process again.?